Three C's for Navigating Crisis

In this episode of the #6 ranked stress podcast, I talk with Debra Woog, a Crisis Navigation Partner. Debra helps clients through tough life experiences. With many hours spent supporting people through divorce, a child's diagnosis, high intensity conflict and more, Debra shares 3 ways that we can take good care of ourselves during crisis.

Debra A. Woog (pronounced like “Vogue” magazine) is a Crisis Navigation Partner™ with 30+ years of experience as a leadership researcher, executive and advisor. Her career path has included conducting research at Harvard Business School, advising tech start-ups on People Strategy, and directing admissions and career development for the MIT dual-degree MBA program Leaders for Global Operations. She earned a B.A. in Psychology and American Studies from Wellesley College and an MBA from the MIT Sloan School of Management. She is a trained mediator and ombudsman. Brené Brown has certified her as a Dare to Lead™ professional. Connect with Debra on her website or FB Group. You can also access Debra's course here.  Be sure to use code "Podcast" for $30 off.

Lindsay Miller is a kids mindfulness coach, mindfulness educator and  host of The Stress Nanny Podcast. She is known for her suitcase tricks  and playful laugh. When she's not playing catch with her daughter or  rollerblading on local trails with her husband, you can find her using  her 20+ years of child development study and mindfulness certification  to dream up new ways to get kids excited about deep breathing. Having  been featured on numerous podcasts, platforms and publications,  Lindsay’s words of wisdom are high impact and leave a lasting impression  wherever she goes. To download Lindsay’s Mindfulness At Any Age Guide  click here. To rate the podcast click here.

Lindsay Miller is a distinguished kids mindfulness coach, mindfulness educator and host of The Stress Nanny Podcast. She is known for her suitcase tricks and playful laugh. When she's not playing catch with her daughter or rollerblading on local trails with her husband, you can find her using her 20+ years of child development study and mindfulness certification to dream up new ways to get kids excited about deep breathing. Having been featured on numerous podcasts, platforms and publications, Lindsay’s words of wisdom are high impact and leave a lasting impression wherever she goes. To sign up for Lindsay's "Calm & Collected" Newsletter click here.

Transcript

Lindsay Miller  0:07  
You're listening to The Stress Nanny podcast and I'm your host, Lindsay Miller. I'm here to help you keep an eye on your family stress levels. In our fast paced lives, the ability to manage stress has never been more important for kids or adults. When it comes to stress, we have two choices we can decrease stress or increase our resilience to it. Here on the number eight ranked stress podcast, I interview experts and share insights to help you do both. When you tune in each week, you'll bring your stress levels down and your resilience up so that stress doesn't get in the way of you living your best life. I'm so glad you're here. 

Hey, there, this is Lindsay. Thanks for joining me on the podcast this week. I'm excited to share this episode with you today, Debra and I are going to talk about asking for help among other things. And as you listen, I invite you to just take stock of moments or situations where you could use some support right now. And then just give yourself the space to think through what that might look like, and how you might access an additional layer of village or help that would give you a bit more ease and would also help you to navigate forward in a way that lets you prioritize in the way that you want to in your life. Now on to the episode. 

Welcome to The Stress Nanny podcast. I'm your host Lindsay Miller and I am delighted that you're here today. My guest is Debra Woog. She's a crisis navigation partner with 30 plus years of experience as a leadership researcher, executive and advisor. Her career path has included conducting research at Harvard Business School, advising tech startups on people strategy and directing admissions and career development for the MIT dual degree MBA program leaders for global operations. She earned her bachelor's degree in psychology and American Studies from Wellesley College and an MBA from the MIT Sloan School of Management. She's a trained mediator, and ombudsman Brene. Brown has certified her as a dare to lead professional. Deborah, thank you so much for joining me today.

Debra Woog  2:13  
Thank you. I'm thrilled to be here. Thanks for having me.

Lindsay Miller  2:16  
It is my pleasure. I love your work. This idea of having a crisis navigation partner feels like a godsend because in any time we're in crisis, right? We're not thinking straight. There's things going on, we're overwhelmed. So talk to me about how you how you kind of recognize the need for this role. And what that looks like when you work with someone.

Debra Woog  2:38  
Okay, great question. So how I recognize the need for this role, in short, was, I wanted this person multiple times in my life, I wanted to be able to turn to this person. So I tend to work with women who feel on their own, in life solo or on their own. They're probably not completely on their own right. We're all a part of community, but they feel it. And I have felt that, as a single mom, I have felt that as some people feel that as a only child of adult parents, and they're dealing with their parents alone, I have felt it as an entrepreneur, CEOs feel it, you know, it's the whole it's lonely at the top thing. So women leaders who are on their own or feel like they're really on their own, for whatever reason, is my target audience because I've been that person multiple times. I've been that person when I was going through a really ugly divorce from a legal perspective, just the legal part was ugly. And I've been, I've been that when my son was diagnosed with type one diabetes, I've been that when my daughter was struggling with major anxiety, generalized anxiety disorder. I've been the main caregiver and breadwinner for my kids for the past 14 years. And so there have been times like that, that have come up that I've just really wished I had a partner, somebody who would hold the information with me, somebody I didn't have to worry about wearing them down by talking their ear off about what I was struggling with. At court, for example, you know, because I talked to my friends. I have wonderful friends. But it's a lot to hold, you know, and I didn't. I didn't, but I wanted another resource besides my therapist, big believer in therapy. I'm all for therapy. I encourage therapy. But what I can do as a crisis navigation partner for someone else in crisis is different than what a therapist can do. So I can help you strategize on your difficult conversations. A therapist can do that too. I can go with you to your difficult conversations if you want. I can go with you to court. I can go with you to fight with your school district if you need I need to, I can go with you to your all hands meeting in your company, if you want me to go there things that therapists can't do by the definition of their role. I can edit documents for you, I can draft documents for you in the communication space. I can do those things. I also, in addition to the difficult communications I help clients make a plan for okay, this is what you're going through? What would be let's envision what would be the best possible outcome given this difficult situation? And let's talk about how can we get from here to there? What are the values you want to hold? What are the ways that you're not going to get completely overwhelmed and sucked under? Who are the people that you're going to turn to during this difficult time? Oh, remember, so and so who said that she would help with that thing. She's still here. Let's ask her. So that there's I can be a partner who's holding on to that information, and can be available more than just once a week with some of that emotional support? Not the therapeutic stuff, but a lot of practical resources, doing research projects for people, I do a lot of those, you know, go find out who are the people in Boston who are using this special treatment approach for glioblastoma, and which ones are on my insurance. And I bring that back to them. Because often when you're in crisis, you are will always when you're in crisis, I mean, the definition of crisis to me is when you're facing a situation, that is more than your regular, regularly scheduled programming for the week. And often it makes keeping up with your regularly scheduled programming for the week. Impossible. Yeah. So it's helpful to have outside resources on your team. And that's what I try to do for my clients. Yeah,

Lindsay Miller  7:04  
it's such a powerful role. Because yeah, the way I define crisis is like a situation that requires more than what you have, like you're like, you're tapped out from the start. This is beyond I am out resourced, like in this moment. And so it makes so much sense to bring in someone who not only has access to a lot of different resources and tools, but also who can kind of like help you clear the deck and prioritize because like, by definition, crisis kind of throws us out of our prefrontal cortex, right? And throws us more into our amygdala where we're just like, I don't know what just happened, but I feel scared, and I'm just feeling all the things that so if you can serve as that prefrontal cortex during a time when it's like that having a struggle to be the boss, that's so powerful. And then like, like you've said, you help women find the right messages, the right tools, the allies to find those best possible outcomes. And I think that so often in crisis, we get lost in that space of like, this isn't gonna end well. Do you find that?

Speaker 2  8:10  
Yes, because we have fear. And often these crisis things, it's easy to catastrophize about them. And you know, some of them have catastrophic endings, you know, one of my friends, not a client, but a friend, you know, last week her coincidentally, because I just mentioned glioblastoma, because I have a client whose partner has glioblastoma. And she's a vice president of a tech company, she has a big job, and she's trying to take care of her partner at the same time. And there's pretty obvious in their case, there's no good ending to that story. Yeah, a friend of mine, her brother, just last week, who was around the same age on late 40s, was also diagnosed with glioblastoma, different parts of the country don't mean a completely different story. But if she's doing such a good job of not completely catastrophizing, and of holding on to the hope that there will be something that they can do for him, that will make a difference, you know, a new technology will come up in the next two years or something like that. But it's so easy to go to the worst possible outcome as a vision. And even if the worst is going to happen, as in, that person's going to lose their life, then I'm not suggesting No, that all happens for the best. But even if that worst possible thing is happening, we can still have a vision for how would you like to handle it with the most race with the most presents with the most taking care of your own health, you know, with a vision for how you'd like it to be

Lindsay Miller  9:50  
to take take an intentional route through crisis regardless of the outcome.

Speaker 2  9:55  
Yes, yes. Yeah. You can't control the entire outcome. Yeah, I can't control. glioblastoma. Yeah,

Lindsay Miller  10:03  
no, definitely just one of

Debra Woog  10:04  
the many things I cannot control.

Lindsay Miller  10:08  
Right. But like in the process, and I'm curious here, if there are certain tools or certain messages or certain resources that you kind of used or pointing people to, I mean, I know it's specific in your work based on the situation they're in. But is there any generalized information that you would love to share around like these moments where you're trying to kind of sit with this thing that just blew up in front of you? And you know, go through the grief with it or go through just reconciling yourself to what's going on your vision of life? Versus what it's looking like? Or, you know, taking something taking a turn that is unexpected? Is there any generalized wisdom that you you want to share?

Speaker 2  10:49  
Yeah, thanks for asking that. So I shared before that, you know, I've been through my own crises. I also realized a few years ago that I had been a go to person for my leadership and career coaching clients and their crises. And for my friends, since I was a teenager, I didn't have clients when I was teenager. When I decided to, when I decided to refocus connect to Corporation on crisis navigation partnership, and let go of some of the other aspects of consulting and coaching I've been doing, I really thought about what have I learned from the experiences I've been through? And then I've witnessed others going through. And so to answer your question, this is a piece of that. I think there are three keys to navigating life's inevitable big challenges, aka crises, they're inevitable, because we are all going to have them in our lifetime, I think there's just no way around it. Whenever I've gone out speaking in public or virtually on this topic, I ask everyone in the room, you know, raise your hand, if you've felt like you've experienced a crisis before, there is no one in the room, when I don't speak to children, I only speak to adults about this. Everyone in the room, regardless of their age, if they're in their 20s, they're in their 50s, they're in their 80s, anywhere in between, they've experienced crisis. So the three keys, I think, are leveraging your community, managing your capacity, and having strong and effective communication. So community capacity communication, so I could talk to you about any one of those in depth for hours, because I have strong feelings about all those. But one thing I've realized is, that's you can't prevent yourself from having crisis in your life. But you can start building your muscles in those three C areas. So that when something does happen, you're a little bit more ready. That said, I'm not going to point that out to anybody who just came to me with I'm in a crisis, you know, it's not a time for me to say, you know, what you should have done

Lindsay Miller  13:13  
a couple years ago, it would have been a real good idea if you

Speaker 2  13:17  
that's not helpful. But for anyone listening who's thinking about the future, I would pay attention to these three things generally. So is there one that you want to talk about more of those

Lindsay Miller  13:29  
videos are so fantastic, and I'm so curious about your wisdom on all of them? Let's see, in the interest of time, maybe let's prioritize capacity. Okay, and then Communication and Community.

Speaker 2  13:40  
Okay. Capacity communicates? I

Lindsay Miller  13:43  
think as as these years of like, raising children, at least my experience, is that, like, your capacity is kind of an ever, ever changing, you know, thing, right? Like there's there's some seasons that require a bit more or something might happen, and you have to adjust. And so yeah, I'm curious how you kind of guide people to tune into the capacity that they have, and then be willing to kind of reassess regularly to make sure things are in a space of balance, or at least some semblance of like, sustainability.

Speaker 2  14:16  
Yeah. All right. So let's start with capacity. You make good points there. I was talking to someone the other day who's not in crisis, but we were just having a conversation where she was, you know, she's a mom, three kids. And she works a little bit part time she's substitute teachers, so she doesn't have a full time job. And she says, I really want to get back to doing yoga. So every day, I say, I'm just gonna finish everything and then I'm gonna do yoga, and I don't know what is wrong with me. I just keep not doing yoga. Okay, I think it's not you. I think you have a flawed premise. It's literally impossible. To finish everything, what if you even make a list of what are your must dues for today, while you're working through that list, why things are coming up and some of them might be must dues for today. So although I am a very big on prioritizing constantly during my day, it is rare that I finished all my today must dues today. And I need to just I need to recognize that. So starting capacity, thought starting thought on capacity is you only have what we all have, which is 168 hours a week. And I sure hope you're sleeping some of them. So you have a really limited amount of time every week to handle whatever's on your plate, whether you're in crisis or not. So it becomes even more important when you're in crisis to only do the things that are absolutely most essential to be done by you. So a few more thoughts about capacity. One is, especially if you're going to kind of preparing for your capacity, think about whether you feel like you're at the top of your game in two ways, one, emotionally, and two, in terms of your executive functioning. Because if your emotions are really high, your executive functioning probably goes down, as you referenced earlier. So what can you do in those moments? Who, what, what can you do in this moment? So let's talk about those things. One, you can turn to people in your community. So we'll come back to that. See, but you can, as you will see, as he these are all in these three letter C's are interrelated. So another piece is, do you have contingency plans? Do you have any emergency plans that you've already made, that we can leverage? Because if you do, rather than try to think of everything in this moment, we can maybe turn to that plan. And when I started refocusing my business three years ago, I thought about those contingency plans that I had made and how that helped. And I thought about specializing and helping other people make those plans. But then as I started that, I realized that that was not the meat of the part that I was most excited about. But I do have templates, I can share with people if they want, you know, to make their own plans, if I become disabled, what would happen if I die? What would happen if you can lay those things out? And lots of people never get to this? And it's okay. But if you can, and you do, and you can turn to it when you're in a crisis, it can save you a lot of time. So contingency plans. And then the other piece of capacity is how much time do you actually have available? And what are your options, assuming that you don't have enough time to do everything you're facing right now, which I just again, I think is an assumption, even if you're not in crisis, you don't have enough time to do everything to do. One of the things I have to tell myself on a regular basis is just because I had a good idea. Doesn't mean I have to follow through on it. Yes. Time, you know, like, oh, that article I read this morning, I should send it to Lindsay because she would really like that. Okay, yeah, she would. And it's a good idea. But maybe I'm not gonna be able to get to that today. Yes. And not beat myself up just because I didn't do everything that occurred to me. So well, that you but I am so fast at coming up with things that I should be doing.

Lindsay Miller  18:41  
I can ideate all day long. No. That's a phrase that I love. Yeah, I do. Yeah, it might be a good idea. But I don't have to act on it.

Speaker 2  18:52  
So thinking about what's on your plate, what are the things that you can actually let go of all together? Or say, okay, yeah, I do love to work out five times a week. But given that I'm in crisis mode, and I probably will be for the next three weeks. I still need to exercise so I'm not gonna let go of it all together. But let's reduce it to two times a week or three times a week, you know, make your goals a little bit more realistic. Let go of some of the perfectionism that may occasionally crossed your mind. I know it crosses mine all the time. So there's that there's letting go okay, you can't I mean, sorry, delegating, you can't really delegate your workout somebody else who haven't do it for you.

Lindsay Miller  19:35  
As nice as that would be.

Speaker 2  19:38  
I would hire that person in a minute. But I haven't found the resource yet. If I do I report back here. But there are other things that maybe can be delegated, like, for example, how are you going to handle dinner for your family? Every night for the next three weeks? There's probably friends who can do that for you. Or maybe you can just decide you're going to order in and it's going to be expensive. But you're gonna let yourself off the hook for your goal of providing a homemade nutritious meal daily, if you even have some. Some other things you can do to kind of expand your capacity that are different than letting go over delegating tasks. And these are a little counter intuitive, I find that I have fought them in the past. And sometimes when I share them with people, they fight me on our one, adding some self care, oh, I don't have time for self, I can't go get a massage. Now. Do you know what I'm facing? I'm in the middle of all of it. When my son was first diagnosed with type one diabetes, we spent five days in the hospital. And I was because we were learning he was 10. And we were learning all the things you have to do to take care of someone with type one diabetes, there was a lot to learn. And after like three days, I was like, I have to get out of here just for a little while. Yeah, I can't leave his side. That's not okay. But I left for a couple of hours. And I did something for myself. I actually can't remember right now what it was. But I remember struggling with the decision to leave and do something for self care. And I remember doing it and coming back and feeling like I had more capacity as a result of self care. So I didn't have more time. But I had more energy and ability to focus. I had more compassion, I had more patience.

Lindsay Miller  21:26  
Yeah, well, I love that. I love that idea of really, like honing in on what will be like the max benefit for the capacity. We do have, like, if I have this much capacity right now. And I am in need of more, like burnout is one option. But like, Oh, if I could do something that would like really quickly increase my capacity and is going to lend me a lot of energy, lend me a lot of like, a felt sense of being okay, like choose that thing, instead of like, you know, like just being really intentional. I love that.

Speaker 2  22:00  
Yeah, so another way to go about it, then maybe this is a form of self care. Well, no, it's not self care, a form of care is adding emotional support, make time to talk to a friend make time to talk to your crisis, navigation partner, make time to go see your therapist, the same way that self care helps you generate more space for yourself. And therefore more capacity, emotional support is that way too. And if you don't have time for either of those things, the old standby brief, is incredibly helpful. And it's crazy how often I forget to do it, I just catch myself holding my breath when I'm stressed. Something as simple as that. Not even with a fancy, you know, bats breathing plan or something, but just a little in and out, can really be valuable to add some capacity. So those are some quick hit parts for you.

Lindsay Miller  22:53  
Definitely, yeah, that's fantastic. I love I love the way you described it both in terms of like the assessment, and then the analysis of like, what's going to be the most beneficial, what do I have time for what? What is the need? And then like, is it just something as simple as a deep breath? Is that going to give me what I need in this moment to get me to the next moment? Yeah, so powerful. Okay, so from there communication,

Speaker 2  23:18  
communication. So I also have found that if you're in crisis, it is, for sure positive definite that you're going to have to be talking to other people, probably about some tough stuff. Yes, you're in crisis. So whether you're talking to your doctor, your lawyer, your school, your partner, your parents, your children, your friends, regardless of what the type of crisis is, you probably have a message and you need to share it. And if you are a leader in your organization, or have a team, or of your PTA committee or whatever, then there's a crisis happening, you're gonna need to be communicating to those groups of colleagues and peers, as well. So I kind of specialize in helping people have difficult conversations. It's something that I feel really passionate about, I think, because I come from a family unit. That's pretty darn terrible at it. And the default behavior for most people in my family origin is Let's just not talk about and hope it goes away. I have found that talking about it is usually quite necessary for my well being if not also for there. So I have had to as an adult, go learn how to have those difficult conversations. And I do that with my clients one on one I help them have that I have a course that I taught for a few years like a workshop called How to Win win any difficult conversation And, and just this month as we speak, I have launched a video version of that course. Okay? That's if you listen to it, if you watch all the videos back to front, it would take you an hour to watch it, but it's broken down into really short modules with lots of tips. And you can always go back to it, you know, when you're in that kind of situation. So building your muscle to have difficult conversations and get ready with that messaging, I think is super important. Yeah.

Lindsay Miller  25:34  
Well, and I appreciate that you pointed that out? I mean, I laughed when you said it, not because I think the conversations would would be comical, because they are not right. In crisis. It's hard conversations. But I laugh because I think that a lot of times, at least for me, like I'll go crisis makes me quiet. You know, like, I want to kind of like processing internally. I'm trying to figure stuff out. Yeah, I'm trying to, like, take an assessment. And you know, and so I think I laughed, because I was like, oh, you know that it's so important to even just acknowledge at the outset, like, I'm gonna have to uplevel my communication, not, you know, for me diminish it. But even if we're just at normal communication, like, I'm going to have to be prepared to or seek support in order to communicate a lot more than what I have been. Because this is like crisis requires that.

Speaker 2  26:24  
I agree with all that. And I want to validate that your natural style of get quiet, observe, analyze, is very useful. And I want you to value that in yourself and not assume that you need to switch to the mode of becoming super communicative. immediately, as soon as you hear about a crisis, that's not good, either. You know, there's Brene, Brown has all this work about people who are high. They're over functionaries, and they're under functionaries, and I relate this to crisis and crisis management. I think in the past, I would think that people who are under functioning were just like, completely useless and what is wrong with you get up and do something. And in studying Rene browns, dare to lead work, I learned that, oh, the under function errs are the ones who can step in, when the over function errs have burned themselves out, because the under function errs, and I'm not suggesting you're an under functional, but think of it. But the under function errs, who take are ones who take care of themselves first, and then they go attack the situation, as opposed to just running into the burning building. And when the firefighters who ran into the burning building are getting overwhelmed with smoke and emotional exhaustion and physical exhaustion, you know, in this metaphor, the under functionaries have been dealing with their feelings about the fire in the building, and they have been getting the support that they need, they've been giving themselves what they need, and then they're ready, when the people who ran in, run out. So just because you're a person who goes quiet intends to think doesn't mean that you're under functioning. But if you're a person who first does tend to kind of shut down and go inward, before you're ready to go outward, do not beat yourself up for that. And don't let people like me in my preview, dare to lead phase beat you up for it?

Lindsay Miller  28:34  
Well, I appreciate that. I really do. And I think there's so much value in Yeah, just respecting. And we'll probably get into this with community, but respecting like everyone's tendencies in crisis. I know like in our family, when we've been in crisis, it's kind of like we've had to take stock of like, Where is everyone at? And what is their capacity? And what is their ability to communicate? And what it's like, you kind of have to take a poll regularly of like, where are we all? Who can who can do what right now? And I think that yeah, I appreciate that respect for my individuality. And I think it's a good illustration that we have, like you said, so many different ways of approaching it. And we might be different from, you know, a co worker, a spouse, a child, and how we, we navigate it and leveraging the strengths while also honoring the differences is so important. But I love their what you said about just needing to communicate more. And it's it also brings to mind the fact that like, I was having a conversation the other day with my mom about something I was struggling with, and I was like, Why Why didn't I talk with her about this earlier? Because she could, you know, communicate for me or you know, pulling in someone like you who can, who can do that communication and you can I can see so much value in having you there to be like, Okay, I'm going to be your PR for this. You just do what you need to do, you know, and then I'm going to help you we're going to figure out what you need to say we're going to like you said earlier, I'm going to write this email. We're going to communicate what's necessary. Essential, without, you know, having having the crisis be like the overwhelming feature of the communication, but it seems like having you there where you can use your executive function to like, okay, the most important things this person needs to know or this, this and this, they don't need to know this, and you don't have to tell them this. And so all you need to do is communicate this, and here's how we're going to do it. That feels like such a big relief. So I love that that's the way you can step in for people and just say like, you don't even worry about it. I'm gonna draft this, we're gonna get it taken care of, you know? Yeah, so powerful. So communities, so you being part of obviously pulling up pulling a crisis, crisis navigation partner in as part of your community. So helpful in these moments, talk to me about what are some of the other I mean, I know I step in, and in people's communities primarily in terms of working with their kids, like when they're facing high stress situations, I teach them mindfulness tools to help like playful mindfulness tools for kids to manage the stress that they're facing, you know, while the parents are kind of managing the higher level stuff and interfacing with teachers, or, you know, whoever else. So talk to me about who are some of the key people we need to be mindful of in our communities? And who do we need to bring in?

Speaker 2  31:14  
Yeah, so it can be could be bringing in people professionally or personally, or both. So, you know, turning to a coach, if we have a coach, like I said, before turning to a therapist, that's all great, but who are the people who love you who are in your family or in your Nearby Friends, or in your inner circle, even if they're far away? And what are their strengths? I'm a big believer that everyone has strengths, we should encourage each other to function from our strengths instead of trying to get us to compensate for our weaknesses, because we have weaknesses, too. And usually, our weaknesses are the flip sides of our strengths. So who are the people who have strengths in the area that you don't right now? For example, you know, we went back to the example before of delegating? How are you going to have dinner for your family every night for the next few weeks? Do you have a friend who loves to organize things? Maybe they can organize a meal train for you? Do you have friends who love to cook? And it's distressing for them to cook? Can you ask them to make something for you, you know, if you're not, if you don't have the project manager friend, who were who's good at things that you're naturally not good at, or that you're usually good at, but it's not one of the most important things for you to spend your time on right now. And again, that can be extra hands, extra hearts, extra brains. Who do you know, who's really resourceful? Who do you know how, who knows how the hospital system and your community works? Because they've had a crisis with their child or an adult in their lives and might be able to say, oh, go to this endocrinologist, not that entrepreneur just leverage other people's knowledge. Who can you you know, I'm just kept coming back to type one diabetes. I didn't, I had a when Aiden was diagnosed. And this was 10 years ago, we had we're friends with a family in which the dad had had type one diabetes, since he was under two years old. So when I found out about his diagnosis, I called them and I said, you know, what should I be doing? What should I know? Who should I talk to? And that was a great compliment to the people who are talking to us in the hospital during those initial days, and then once we were beyond the hospital, if I didn't happen to know somebody like that, I could have turned to my more, you know, networked friends and say, the ones who are community builders naturally and say, who in your world? Who do you know, who has a kid with type one diabetes, you know, anybody? Can you introduce me to them? So turning to people who have subject matter expertise, even if they're not people who are friends or family of yours can also be really valuable.

Lindsay Miller  34:12  
Yeah. Oh, that was great. And I think in what you said, I also heard a lot of permission, because you said, you know, asking for help. And then also asking, even if it's something you're generally usually pretty good at, but you don't have capacity for Yeah, letting giving yourself permission to like, let someone else come in and also giving yourself permission to let what they do be okay. Like to not need it to be a certain, you know, because I think sometimes when we're in crisis, too, we have to relinquish so much control, that sometimes the things that we're good at, or the things that we really, like have down, sometimes it can be hard to let those go. And so giving like ourselves permission, and that again, having someone like you on board where you can say hey, you know, give yourself the space here to not be the one who has to do this, like you who do you have? Who can? And I think that while we might aspirationally think to ourselves like, oh, yeah, of course, I would ask for help. Like, are you really leveraging your community in the way that you could? Right? Are you really getting all the help that you could in order to keep your capacity like as high as possible for the mission critical stuff, that's just you. So I love the ways that yeah, that the three seas as you've described them weave together and create, like, what it feels like, to me is like a really thick weave, that is support like underneath, right? When it's not gaps that you're going to kind of slip through. But it's just like this woven network that you can kind of lean into, and allow yourself to move through the crisis in a way that honors where you're at what you've got, and where you want to go. Yes. So powerful, okay, well, this has been an incredible conversation, I've loved all the things you've shared, and just the wisdom that you're putting out into the world is so powerful, because I think, crisis, or it's those moments that break us, right, but then it's like you said, if we see it as, like, all the things, that is the emotion of it, the struggle of it, but then if we can move through it in a way that honors like, our values, a lot of times afterwards, if we are if we are making it through, like if we are living afterwards, we might be living with loss, we might be living with a different life than what we you know, envisioned, but there's potential for it to have a richness that I think sometimes crisis invites us to, like a lot, at least in my own life, like a level of richness and meaning has come at each of the moments of crisis that I've faced. And it's come because of an intentional, like, desire to have meaning woven into the, you know, the thick of the experience, no matter what it is.

Debra Woog  36:51  
It's beautiful.

Lindsay Miller  36:54  
Talk to me about oh, go ahead. were you gonna say something?

Speaker 2  36:56  
I would just the word that was floating up to me in my brain, as you were speaking was gentleness. How can we be more gentle with ourselves in his most difficult moments? And what would be the How can we be more gentle with ourselves? Yeah. Amen. Who else can be gentle with us when we're having trouble doing it ourselves?

Lindsay Miller  37:24  
Yes. Yeah. Because the, again, support can help us. Like, let the gentleness it flows from us, right? Like we can, if we're feeling so strong, like so high strung and so overburdened, it's hard for us to cultivate that gentleness within. And then oftentimes, like, we only want to be gentle with the people around us in crisis. But when we get to the point where we're over overburdened, it's hard to do that. And so letting the gentleness flow. And if you feel like you can't flow from you anymore, that might mean you need to let it flow from someone else into you so that it can keep flowing from you. So I love that you're in a position to be that that person. Thanks. Tell people where they can find you. How can they learn more about the communication course? You talked about your work? How can they partner with you?

Speaker 2  38:21  
Okay, yeah, so my handle everywhere on social media is connect TW O, connect to so I'm on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, my website is connect to.com. If you go to my website, there is a drop down for services. And in there, there is a link to the course that I just told you about the How to Win win any difficult conversation and the video course, and I have a coupon code that I'd love to share with your community. If you enter the coupon code podcast, you get $30 off. And so you can get the course for $99 instead of 129.

Lindsay Miller  39:07  
Awesome, thank you so much. And also

Speaker 2  39:09  
email me at Deborah at connect two.com. Schedule a time on my calendar if you want also from my website.

Lindsay Miller  39:18  
Okay, thank you. Yeah, obviously, Deborah has so many tools and resources and like insights on crisis that if you are navigating something right now that feels so big, please don't hesitate to reach out.

Speaker 2  39:31  
Yeah, and I want to have a conversation with anyone who reaches out to me, no, no charge. We can talk about what you're going on and what you're going through. And I can let you know some ways that I might be able to be helpful if there are any, and whether or not there are any, if I know other people who can be helpful. I'm a connector. I'm a community builder. So I want to introduce you to those and just share anything I have that I can give you in that brief period of time. It would be my pleasure to do that because I just don't want anyone to feel like they have to go through it all by themselves.

Lindsay Miller  40:04  
Thank you. Thank you so much for all that you that you do and for the wisdom that you shared here today, Debra, thank you. Well, what did you think? I know I left the conversation wishing Debra was in my life all the time, so that she could help me navigate different scenarios. But again, back to my question from the beginning, what situation could you use some extra support with right now? You know, whether it's someone like Debra stepping in, whether it's someone like me stepping in to support you, with your kids, like, what is the way that you would benefit from some help. And help can come in a variety of different ways, right, it can come in the way of professionals it can come in the way of neighbors or friends, you know, other other people in our community. But I think that we can really get stuck in a space of wanting to kind of do it all ourselves. I know, I do that a lot. And so I hope this episode just serves as a reminder that asking for help can be really, really powerful. And also, just give us the headspace or the heart space to navigate challenges with more intention. Because when we're kind of just frazzled, and frantic and running and running and running, it can be really tricky to be intentional. But when we can ease the burden just a little bit by asking for help, there's a lot that's freed up, and we can then kind of tune into our intuition and move forward with more skill and wisdom. Thanks again for being here. 

You've just finished an episode of The Stress Nanny podcast. So hopefully you feel a little more empowered when it comes to dealing with stress. Feel free to take a deep breath and let it out slowly, as you go back to your day. I'm so glad you're here. If you're a longtime listener, thank you so much for your support. It really means the world to me. If you're new, I'd love to have you follow the podcast and join me each week. And no matter how long you've been listening, please share this episode with someone who is stressed out. If you enjoyed the show, would you please do me a favor and go to ratethispodcast.com/thestressnanny and leave a review. The link is in the show notes. I'm so grateful for all my listeners. Thank you again for being here. Until next time!

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