The ultimate guide to managing stress and finding greater joy

Welcome to this episode of the #6 ranked stress podcast, where we explore ways to manage stress and live a happier, healthier life.  In today's episode, Lindsay talks with Dr. Gary Sprouse, a doctor and author who focuses on helping people reduce stress. Lindsay Miller, a stress management expert will help us explore how Dr.  Sprouse's groundbreaking insights help us rethink stress.

Segment 1: A Big Picture View of Stress

In this segment, Dr. Sprouse shares an overview that invites us to rethink stress. He shares his theory of how most stress is a side-effect of skills that are really useful and how learning to manage stress is just learning to manage the side effects of skills.

Segment 2: Rethinking Worry

Lindsay and Dr. Sprouse explore the nature of worry and the ways it can be helpful. When we re-frame worry and create a way to organize it we reduce it's power to create stress in our lives.

Segment 3: Exploration of Guilt & Regret

In this segment, Dr. Sprouse talks about why guilt and regret help society and how to have conversations with kids to help them let go of guilt and regret instead of getting fixated on those stressful emotions.

Segment 4: Takeaways

In this final segment, Lindsay and Dr. Sprouse talk about having conversations with kids that enable them to feel empowered to make their own decisions around managing stress. The process of learning to manage stress takes time and a supportive adult helps kids gain confidence that they can manage stress.

Conclusion:

Thanks for tuning in to this episode of the Stress Nanny podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review us on your favorite podcast platform. And don't forget to join us next time as we explore more ways to manage stress and live a happier, healthier life.

Dr. Gary Sprouse has been a doctor for over 35 years! Now in addition to working in his office and at nursing homes he is writing a book "Highway to Happiness: The Roadmap to Less Stress" which is due to release soon. I was very happy to have the opportunity to chat with him! You can connect with Dr. Sprouse through his website, on Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, or LinkedIn. 

Lindsay Miller is a kids mindfulness coach, mindfulness educator and  host of The Stress Nanny Podcast. She is known for her suitcase tricks  and playful laugh. When she's not playing catch with her daughter or  rollerblading on local trails with her husband, you can find her using  her 20+ years of child development study and mindfulness certification  to dream up new ways to get kids excited about deep breathing. Having  been featured on numerous podcasts, platforms and publications,  Lindsay’s words of wisdom are high impact and leave a lasting impression  wherever she goes. To sign up for Lindsay's weekly "Calm & Collected" Newsletter click here.

Lindsay Miller is a distinguished kids mindfulness coach, mindfulness educator and host of The Stress Nanny Podcast. She is known for her suitcase tricks and playful laugh. When she's not playing catch with her daughter or rollerblading on local trails with her husband, you can find her using her 20+ years of child development study and mindfulness certification to dream up new ways to get kids excited about deep breathing. Having been featured on numerous podcasts, platforms and publications, Lindsay’s words of wisdom are high impact and leave a lasting impression wherever she goes. To sign up for Lindsay's "Calm & Collected" Newsletter click here.

Transcript

Lindsay Miller  0:07  
You're listening to The Stress Nanny podcast and I'm your host, Lindsay Miller. I'm here to help you keep an eye on your family stress levels. In our fast paced lives, the ability to manage stress has never been more important for kids or adults. When it comes to stress, we have two choices we can decrease stress or increase our resilience to it. Here on the number eight ranked stress podcast, I interview experts and share insights to help you do both. When you tune in each week, you'll bring your stress levels down and your resilience up so that stress doesn't get in the way of you living your best life. I'm so glad you're here. 

Welcome, welcome to the podcast this week. I'm so glad you're here. So this episode is the ultimate stress resilience episode. The Stress Nanny and the Stress Doc Gary Sprouse are about to have a conversation with some of the best stress reducing tips. So listen up, and I'll be excited to hear which ones resonate the most with you. 

Welcome to The Stress Nanny podcast. I'm your host Lindsay Miller and I'm so glad you're here. Today I'm chatting with Dr. Gary Sprouse, also known as the Stress Doc. So today the Stress Doc and the Stress Nanny are going to bring you all the stress management we can. Dr. Sprouse has been a doctor for over 35 years. And now in addition to working in his office, and at nursing homes, he's writing a book called Highway to Happiness, The Roadmap to Less Stress. It's due to release soon, and I'm very happy to have the opportunity to chat with him today. Thank you so much for being here. Dr. Sprouse.

Dr. Gary Sprouse  1:36  
Ah, well, thank you for having me there. I mean, I mean, my goal is to help people have less stress. And it's like, yeah, your podcasts are the kind of tools and information that people need.

Lindsay Miller  1:46  
Yeah, well, I'm so yeah, I have notes and notes and notes about what I want to ask you. So I'm just gonna get started. Because we're not going to have enough time. I already know. That's kind

Dr. Gary Sprouse  1:55  
of what I was thinking, right? We'll have to have chapter two.

Lindsay Miller  1:59  
Yeah, well, I've done another episode. All right. First of all, because we talked so much about reframing here on the podcast, I just want you to go over kind of the way you conceptualize stress in a big picture way in relation to skills so that we can all be on the same page as we get started with this conversation.

Dr. Gary Sprouse  2:16  
All right, so one of the things you know, I'm in the doctor in my office, and all these patients are coping with stress. And I'm like, there's something not right here. Now. You know, I've read a bunch of books on strap. What I came up with this idea that humans are amazing. Like, we have these incredible skills, like we can envision the future we can. We have words, we have technology, we have books, we have podcasts, right? But those skills come with side effects. So here's the example. So I can envision the future and say, oh, what happens in the next year, the next 10 years. But the side effect is, then I have to worry about it. And I'm thinking, Oh, no, what if that happens? And what if that happens? So the skill is being able to envision the future, which humans couldn't live without number one. But number two, this side effect is worrying about it. And so when you go to a regular psychologist, they'll say we'll just live for today, you're like, well, that's a great idea. First off, you can't do it when you're a human. And second off, why would I want to give up my greatest skill, because it has a side effect? So in my book, what I say is, hey, keep the skill lose the side effect.

Lindsay Miller  3:22  
Yes, which is so powerful, right? Because so many, and we're gonna go through these as much as we can. But so many of the things you mentioned that are stress inducing are as a result of these skills. And so I loved the idea of, like, reframing it to just think, Okay, keep this skill lose the side effect. It's fantastic.

Dr. Gary Sprouse  3:40  
Well, so like, as a doctor, right, what I see are, have a lot of Alzheimer's patients. And what happens is, they literally can't worry, because they don't have the skill anymore to envision the future. So they don't sit in the room and gone, hey, who's gonna pay for my room next month? Because they don't have the ability. So if you take a newborn, they don't go, Hey, how am I gonna go to work tomorrow? Because they don't have tomorrow. They just have right right now. But they're also not very functional. So because they don't have that skill, we have to take care of them. And so I want people to have, I mean, the first thing I tell people is, thank somebody for saying, Hey, I have the skill to envision the future, because it's an amazing skill. Yeah,

Lindsay Miller  4:23  
yeah. Well, just the recognition that the side effect can be managed, just like and you bring this out in the book, just like with other side effects, as a physician that you're trying to work with patients on like for medication or other things, you try to manage the side effects in a way that minimizes them to the extent possible. And in this, we're trying to do the same thing just to manage the side effects.

Dr. Gary Sprouse  4:43  
Absolutely. That's exactly what I'm trying to get. Okay, so

Lindsay Miller  4:46  
can you just take us through some of the techniques and the concepts that you've created to help people handle stress?

Dr. Gary Sprouse  4:54  
Okay, so here's the first thing, right, when I get to see our most people, when I say hey, I'm writing a book on how to have fun stressing, I need that book and you're like, I haven't met a person yet who hasn't said, but Right. But then I say, Well, what are you doing already, and they're like, they have this. And this is the word I'm going to use as learned helplessness. They're like, there's nothing I can do about it. It just is the world is coming at me. I can't fix a pandemic, I can't fix, you know, inflation. And so they just feel like they're suffering through and there's nothing they can do about it. So the first thing I tell people to stop that learning what I tell them is on learned learned helplessness, right? Yeah. Because you, there are things you can do to have less stress. Now, what I've seen is a lot of the information that's out there has been, and I'm going to put it into Word of generic, because they go, Hey, these are the top 10 stresses. And these are some things you can do about it. What my book is telling you is why they're stressful. So losing a spouse is like one of the most stressful things, but why? And it's like, so when you understand about worry, and guilt and regret and low self esteem. And then you got these are the ingredients that go into why they're so stressful. That's something you can do about so I might not be able to fix a pandemic, but I can control my reaction to the pandemic. Yes,

Lindsay Miller  6:17  
yes. And I love that empowered approach to stress, because that's what we're all about here. Right? Yeah. actions that you can take. and not feeling like whatever gets handed to you has to be what you carry around for the rest of your life. But managing it in a way that makes it feel like you have some control over the situation. And you can get the tools you need to work through it. So yeah, let's go through. Can you just walk us through the the the different stressors that you outlined in the book, I know we're not going to be able to go into all of them in depth. But I think it's beneficial as we get started to kind of reference them so people can connect. I

Dr. Gary Sprouse  6:55  
just did a one day seminar. And I talked like eight hours straight. And I got through about three quarters. I'm like, yeah, yeah, I was like, then I realized you I probably talked too much that day. But anyway. So the first one I was going to talk about is worry. And what I saw what I saw part of this way to gain control of what's going on is understand what it is. So here's a facet. So if I said to you, what's worry? How would you define that?

Lindsay Miller  7:23  
I would say it's anticipation of the future, in a negative way.

Dr. Gary Sprouse  7:28  
Okay, well, that's pretty good. So but then how do you change that?

Lindsay Miller  7:33  
So I like to anticipate the future in a more positive way. I also like bring awareness to it, like notice it. And then I try to look for the things I can be grateful for about the situation instead of the things that I'm like concerned about?

Dr. Gary Sprouse  7:46  
Well, that's actually a really good answer, because most people look at me. Sure I got, I don't know, when they start trying to define it. They get very, their definitions are very superficial at best, right? And I was like, Well, if that's the answer, well, how do you change that? And they go, I don't know. So here's my definition. I tried to be really concrete. So the definition is, I'm using this amazing skill of envisioning the future. But I'm focusing on all the, excuse me, all the bad things that can happen. And then I'm having a physiologic reaction of fear right now. So when that becomes your definition, you know, the IRS is gonna send me right. And so the problem with was worry is there's nothing to make it stop. So my dog might have another dog come in the yard, and our bird gets stood up, and she's barking and her legs are sprayed ahead. And, but as soon as that dog gets out of her sentry environment, then she goes back and lays down in the sun and hangs out. But I go, Oh, my God, what does the dog comes back? What if the dog was what if I was outside and a bit my leg? Like, and there's nothing to make that? Yeah, it's all in my head. Right? Yeah, there's, there's a book called The worry check. And when he calls, what if? And what I find is most a lot of people are spending their life gone. What if? What if, what if that happens, what if this happens? And so if that's the definition, then one of the one of the tools that I use is similar what you just said, I call it realistic optimism. Now what I tell people is I don't want them to stop worrying. Because worry is actually a really good thing. It's functional, right? Yeah. It's like, Hey, make sure you know, like, you lock the door, so nobody breaks into your house. So worry is not a bad thing. It's when you do it over and over and over again. And you do it inefficiently. So but I have its patients telling me they're staying up all night, worrying about the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. Well, that doesn't do you any good at all. So the two things I talked about are realistic optimism, which is you kind of alluded to it, which is I don't know what's going to happen in the future. I just have some idea right? And then I can have a pretty good idea but I don't really know. So you can either focus on the bad things or you can focus on the good things. So if I so I use myself as example like, hey, this books never gonna Gonna get done. And even if I get it done, who's gonna buy it and like, I'm just gonna lose a bunch of money and waste a bunch of my life? Well, that doesn't make you feel very good, which then makes you not want to write the book. But if I go, I'm gonna be a Lindsey's podcast and people are gonna buy the book and everybody's gonna be so much less stressed because of it. Yeah, well, then you go, that makes you feel good. So when you look into the future, and you vision, the future, and you envision good things happening, guess what, it makes you feel good right now. The reason why people can't do that, is because our bodies have been set up to evaluate our environment, and focus on the things that are dangerous. So like, if you were in a room, and you had 10 people trying to give you $1,000, but one guy in the back with a machine gun pointed at your head, you're gonna tend to pay attention to the machine gun, right? But that's, that is way we're set up. Because if you miss the machine gun, doesn't matter how many 1000s of dollars you get, right? Yeah, so our environment now isn't just that room with 10 people on a machine gun, it's the future. So our environment now includes the future, which is what worries all about us trying to keep the future safe, which is not real. It's really, really hard to do. Because here's what I find, the smarter you are, and the more knowledgeable you are, the more things you can worry about. So being smart, makes it actually worse. Because if you aren't very smart, you can't think of too many things to worry about. Right? If it's easy, right? So realistic optimism says, Hey, focus, use your skill to envision the future, focus on the good things, which then makes you feel good. Now, instead of having that fear reaction. And it's like a habit. It's like getting off cigarettes, you got to learn how to do it, because you're so used to doing it the other way, focusing on all the bad things and having the fear response, that it's really it takes, it takes time and effort to so actually have people write down. Here's, I'll say patients, tell me some bad things that could happen to you. And they go delete it like 10 things right away. Right? It goes to tell me some good things that happen like that. No, no, that's gonna turn into bad anyway. Right? So one of the things I have them do is actually write down good things. So they get used to the habit of thinking there are some good, even if they just do one to 10 that's already made their life better, right?

Lindsay Miller  12:18  
Yeah, I did that with kids, too. And they did, I can totally concur, where they're, like 50 things could go wrong or went wrong today. And like, well, what's one good thing that happened? I don't know. Like it, you know, it does take time, but your brain eventually does recalibrate itself to start to look for those things instead, or with along with the things you're worried about. But I love that idea of efficient worry, like don't worry, inefficiently, worry, and do it efficiently.

Dr. Gary Sprouse  12:46  
Okay, so then, so one of the ways to get efficient worry, is what I call a worry organizer. And so what that means is I have a sheet that it's it'll be in the book, but it's like, it puts worried the five categories. So the categories are, what is it that you worried about? And why are you worried about it? And how likely and how dangerous? Is it? And what can you do about it? And what if what happens if it happens, right? So I had a lady who came in with breast cancer, she didn't have breast cancer, her mom and her sister had breast cancer. So she came in, and she was worried that I said, What are you worried about? She's like, I'm worried I'm gonna get breast cancer. So why are you worried? Well, because my family members have had breast cancer. So that makes my chances more likely. So then we sat down, and as a doctor, I had the statistics, how likely is it that you're going to get breast cancer? Well, in her mind, it was 100. Like, she was gonna get breast cancer. And I said, Well, how dangerous is if you get breast cancer? Well, you're just gonna die. So it's 100% that it holds up. It's 100%. Dangerous. So as a doctor, I was like, yeah, no, here's the statistics. The statistics are you have a 50% chance to get breast cancer. And because you're going to do all the things to catch it early. You haven't, you only have like a 50% chance of dying from it, you have an 85% chance of getting cured. Now, if she believed me, you could see in the room or like her stress when she's like, What, only 50% Yeah, only, like her stress went way down just by looking at these numbers more objectively. But then the next category is like, what can you do about you make sure it doesn't happen. So you get mammograms, do breast examinations, get your bracket gene tested, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then the last category, well, okay, so you say you got breast cancer, and you're not going to survive, right. So get your will done. Make sure your your sister's gonna watch your kids or your right, make sure you're prepared, in case the worst happens. But with that sheet does with that organizer does is now gives you a way to write out all the things that were going on in your head over and over and over and over again. And it's now written down. So now you can process the information differently. And you can show it to your friends and your family and your experts in your life and say, Hey, I thought of these things. It's just things you can think of that I can add to this list. And then again, And then when you wake up in the middle of night you go, Oh my god, I could get breast cancer. You're like, oh, wait, it's in my notebook. It's right there. Oh, yeah, I did all those things. It's okay. Right? Yeah. Oh, I

Lindsay Miller  15:09  
love that I love love that with kids, I do something called a worry ometer. And it's a similar, it's like a similar exercise, not quite as detailed. But the idea being to like, put it from the emotive part of our brain into the logical part of our brain so that we can like, take concrete action steps to mitigate it, and address it to the extent possible, and then be able to let it go, because it's not as charged. So I love I love those steps. And that's such a great example. Because I think so often worry can feel like you said, like, this big, nebulous thing that's almost like an inevitability. And instead, when we look at it, and like you said, get facts around it, get some statistics around it, we can be like, Oh, and there's like, a palpable change in our body when we're not like, awash in all of that.

Dr. Gary Sprouse  15:55  
Yeah. Well, that fear response is, yeah, it's amazing to me what fear keeps us from doing like, I know, when my daughter wants to get on a roller coaster. I'm like, Nah, right. It's like, No, I don't think so. Yeah. So there's all these things, like, what I've learned is that public speaking is like, people would rather die than do public speaking. I'm like, what? It's like, but that's all fear, like, and fear was set up to say, hey, go hide in the corner or run away. And it's like, don't do that. Because it I mean, there's obviously a really important part that fear plays in our life, but it can go it can be overwhelming and in get dysfunctional. Yeah, I one of the other examples I use in your life, because I think you do a lot with kids is I use that word organizer. And here's the, the example is like, your your son comes to you. And he's 16 years old. And he goes, Hey, Mom, I'm gonna go to a concert. And you're like, why? And I'm like, Yeah, that's concert. I'm gonna go with my friends. And, you know, the moms worry that he's gonna get in trouble, but bad things are gonna happen. And then they go, Well, all right, yeah. Okay, you can go. And then he goes, Oh, by the way, it's, it's in another state. It's like in West Virginia. And all sudden, the mom goes, what? Another state? No, you can't go. And I'm like, Well, what changed? Right? Like you were learning, let me go on it was down the street. So why is this a different effect? Right? So that's where that third category comes in? Because now you say, Well, how likely is that you're gonna get in trouble? Well, maybe not any more likely, because you're going into a different state. But how dangerous is it? Oh, well, if it's in another state, I don't know anybody there. I don't know what their rules are. So what you see is the percentage of start changing. And so now, when you have the worry organized, you're now the kids and say, Mom, it's a 5% chance that I'm gonna get in trouble. And I've already talked to this. And so it's very unlikely, you know, it's not going to be dangerous, because I know the rules and the where the mom can go, look, it's about a 10% chance of you getting there, maybe 15%. And if this bet, if it happens, then it's gonna be age. But now you're talking numbers. And you're a dumb jerk. And you're your mom. And so rather than get into these emotional things, you can turn it into numbers. And now you can actually get some numbers like how likely is it that you're going to get in trouble? How bad is it if you get drunk? So I liked this idea, because it's illustrates why parents and kids get in trouble all the time. Yeah, you have disagreements, even though they're using the same information? Yeah,

Lindsay Miller  18:27  
no, that's so powerful. And just the fact that you can have a structured conversation around different things, right, because I feel like that's so important when we have kids at any age, is, you know, when they're trying to exert independence or trying to do something adventurous. And we're feeling a sense of hesitancy being able to articulate both parties, you know, being able to articulate their perspective, and then coming together to make a decision that's informed, you know, and we're not just like shunting worry off to the side. Like, I shouldn't worry about this at all. But we can get clear on it. Yeah, I love that tool, we can get clear on it, communicate it, and then come to an informed decision. So I use

Dr. Gary Sprouse  19:01  
this in my nursing home patients, because the patients that are coming there for rehab, their knee replaced, or had surgery or something, and they're like, I want to go home. And you're like, wow, like when I'm walking, I'm doing this, I'm like, well, you're doing 95% of your stuff. But that 5% That's not good. If you fall and you break your hip, that is not a good thing. So we're trying to get you up to 98 to 99%. Like, okay, fine, right, because they get that right.

Lindsay Miller  19:27  
Yeah, as you can articulate it in a way that's clear. Yeah. No, that's fantastic. Yeah. Okay, you there are so many we're just going to have to have another episode. What about guilt? That's the next one. Well, okay,

Dr. Gary Sprouse  19:41  
so this is something that I learned when I did the seminar, right. And there was some men and some women in the group. And I said, Okay, write down something they feel guilty back, and all the women and all the men were like, Let me think. Like, they could barely think of stuff and I'm like, Wait, is this is this dead? Yeah. under specific, so then went back to my patients and I'm like, Yeah, you know, women versus men? Yes. Everyone was like, oh, yeah, guilt was easy thing to come out with guys are like, Ah, right. I was like what? There are some specific reasons why that happens. And I think it has to do with how men and women, like interact with the world. So what I find is that men tend to be minimizers, right? So if there's like a 10, they're looking at as a one. And so they go, what's only a one, I don't need to deal with that. And sometimes they make it a zero, which is then where the wife gets upset and says, You don't even pay attention, this can be really bad move. So yeah, so by minimizing things, that makes it not as bad, so then their stresses are easier to handle, because it's only a one, it's not a 10. But I think that then, by minimizing it, then they don't feel as much guilt either, because they're like, that's, it wasn't that big a deal. Even if I did something wrong. It's not that big a deal. Women, on the other hand, tend to be like shares. And so they're sharing their stress with others. They're sharing their gifts with others. And so I think they, they have a much this is what I've been watching. I mean, I didn't, I didn't even I didn't know this, but what I see is that women had a lot more feeling like they had done something wrong. And to me, that's where guilt comes from. So guilt is I did something wrong, like I broke a rule. And what I found was when I was listening to the women is most of the time, they haven't done anything wrong. Like most of their guilts were things like, I didn't do enough for my kids as they were growing up. Or, you know, I didn't do enough at work. Like I was doing somebody else's podcast, and they're like, she asked me a question like, What do you tell a woman who's worked eight hours and thought she should have worked in and I'm like, what? Like, as a guy, I'm like, What the heck why? But apparently, that's like women's spend a lot of time thinking they didn't do enough. And I'm like, Okay, so first off, I define guilt. That's obviously the first thing you have to do. So guilt is you did something wrong. But then you stack goes, what does that mean? Like? Where did wrong come from who who decided wrong? Right? So I went through this thing that said, like, how do you define right versus wrong? So it turns out, you have to have some rules that are been written down, you have to have a group that you've identified with. So like, he like, was just talking to somebody today. Like in the NFL, they're all worried about this quarterback getting a concussion. And they're like, Oh, we got to get rid of concussions. And then there's a sport called boxing, where the point is to give the guy can cost you like, right, so depending on what group you're in, they obviously think concussions in a different way. Right? Yeah. So group is important. And aims are the group of an important. So if you're, if you're a doctor, and you're at a meeting in Chicago, your goal is to keep people alive and not kill them. Right. But if you're a SEAL team, and you're in a foreign country, your goal is to kill somebody. So killing somebody in that setting is okay, it's a good thing. You get rewarded for it. If you're in Chicago, and I start killing Dawkins. Yeah, I don't, I don't get rewarded for that. Right. So. So the goal, the group is important, and the aim of the group is important. And then the rules and the rules can be written down. Or they can just be, you know, oral, right. So like, like, I play basketball Thursday night, and the younger kids will come in, like I'm in my 60s, right? And so the kids will come in in their 20s. And they got like, weird socks and leggings and flip flops. And, um, and hood is like, what holes in theirs? I'm like, What the heck are you weird? Like, that is so wrong? Yeah. Anyway, so but then nobody wrote the rules. How are you supposed to wear me and it just, it just happened. But then, so when you want you to define, and then the last thing is Judge, right. So you have to have a judge, because there's always going to be times where there's disagreement or so you need to assign somebody to be the judge. But the judge could be your friend, or it could be, you know, whoever's the head of your class, or it could be, right. So the judge could be, you know, guy in a black robe or a lady in a black robe, or it could be like, it could be social media as the judge, right? So once you define those things, then you can start looking at right and wrong. And what I found most of the time, when people were telling me they feel guilty. It wasn't they didn't do anything wrong. So I'll tell you a story. A little lady told me this last week, because I was telling her about this idea about women. And she goes yeah, I felt really guilty, like for the most of my life, and I'm like, why? She goes when I was 16 I was in bed and I my dad woke me up and said, Can you take my take your sister to work? And she's like, Dad, I'm really tired or had a late night, blah, blah. So she went back then he goes, Okay, honey, I'll take care of it. And then he died in a car accident. And so she felt horrible. She felt guilty. And literally she got suicidal at the time. Let's follow her through her whole life. She was upset as she's telling me the story. And I'm like, but you didn't do anything wrong. You didn't break any rules like, like, you just made a decision. And, and he said, Okay, right. And it's like why it's so you would have been in the car accident, you think that if you had been there wouldn't, I mean, like, you can't change, you don't have that power to make. And so he did it die, right. And the second thing is like, but you also don't have the power to change the decision you made. It got made with the information you had at the time, you were tired. He said, Okay, he'll take care of it. That was the information you had. And so at that time, the decision was fine. Like, so you can't change what you did, all you can change is how you work in the future. And she did. So later on in her life, and her mom was getting more infirm, and couldn't really live by herself. And so she made the decision to quit what she was doing, and go live with her mom and took care of her mom for like 10 years, until she died. And it's like, see, that's that. So guilt is set up as a society say, Hey, don't do that. But what it says is change and do something better, or do it differently or do it right, it was we describe it. And as long as you're doing it that way, well, then guilt has done his job. It did what it was supposed to, and it doesn't need to keep hanging around your neck and dragging you down. Yeah,

Lindsay Miller  26:27  
that's really powerful. And I think having conversations with kids around those rules, you know, like the groups and the rules and unspoken versus spoken rules, because like oftentimes teenagers or elementary kids, you know, there's there's a sub set of rules. Yes, maybe, is not what as adults, we may be conceptualized. But if we take the time to have conversation and listen, you know, and create some dialogue around it, we can understand guilt from a different perspective. I think a lot of times, sometimes we can, as parents have the tendency to brush it off, because it doesn't meet our parents rules, you know, what I mean? are like adults, really adult group mentality. And when we can have empathy for our kids, and really sit with them in those moments when they feel guilt over something that's a teen, you know, teen related, I was talking to my niece the other day, and she was talking about how, if you do something, if you do something to to make it so that privileges get taken away in high school, you're shunned. And so she was giving me example of like, if a therapy dog was at lunch, but you messed up and you made it so that therapy dog couldn't come, you would get shunned. And so then that way, all the high schoolers would be appropriate if there was a therapy dog because they would know they would get shunned otherwise, anyway, just things that I was like, I, I didn't even think of it like that. But you know, I mean, I can see what you're talking about. But she was just explaining to me like what the culture was, you know, for her group, that's the group, right? Yeah, listening, and just appreciating her ability to communicate it, you know, and then we could have a conversation around it. But I think as parents if we brush it off, or we don't like acknowledge the guilt and sit with that group rules for whatever kid our kids ages, we miss an opportunity to have those transformative conversations, like you did with with the woman who, you know, didn't wake up to drive her sister to work like we can, we can help kids transform that guilt into something else, when we take the time to sit with them and the rules for the group that they're in. So

Dr. Gary Sprouse  28:25  
So guilt is a tool that society uses. Like, we want people to have guilt when they did something wrong. The people that we fear the most of the people that are out there, like killing somebody, and I go whatever, like, No, we don't like that at all. So there's a real specific, it's a tool that society uses, so that we can live in a group, we have to make up rules and come up with aims and have an enforcer and have judge. And it's like, because that's how we want now sometimes the rules are kind of sorted on these. It they're not that they don't seem that important to us, right? Like, whether your jeans have holes in them or not, like really like that matters. But for some people, it really does matter a lot right

Lindsay Miller  29:06  
shoes you're wearing Yeah. Yeah, for sure. No, that's it. That's interesting. Again, the functional aspect of it, and then the side effect being the guilt that is not useful. Right. Yeah.

Dr. Gary Sprouse  29:20  
Right. So guilt as a tools is I can't change what I did. But I can change the future. I can change what I do in the future. And so that's the that's what go, that is what guild supposed to do is make you change as you go forward. So if you killed somebody in the past, don't kill anybody. Like I see. I've taken a lot of patients that have problems with drug addictions. And they feel really guilty about the things they did in the past. And like, are you still doing them? And they're like, Well, no. Okay. Well, thank you. I did it was supposed to, like, don't do it anymore. Like that's what it was supposed to do. Yeah, it worked.

Lindsay Miller  29:51  
Yeah. When you know better do better. Yeah. Okay, the next one is regret. And one thing I just want to chime in here like this book has So many great examples. They're like educational references, there are personal references, there are patient references. It's all really accessible and filled with stories. And so there's academics to it, but also so many down to earth stories. And this one, I think, if you don't mind me mentioning it, you talk about a regret you have with your kids. And I think that so many people listening could you know, resonate with that sense of feeling of regret around something with our kids. But I just want to say like, as you're reading some stress books are dry. As someone who studies stress, I can tell you this, some that are hard to get through. But the the examples anyway, I just, this one is so easy to read, and it just feels really personable. So thank you for that. And then, yeah, do you mind sharing your experience with regret?

Dr. Gary Sprouse  30:46  
So yeah, it's about 15 years ago now. So my kids were like, 18, and 16. So one was just getting ready to go to college. And one was like, finishing up high school. And I had decided at the time that I couldn't be married to my wife anymore. I mean, there was irreconcilable differences. Now we'll go into all details. But that's where it came down to. And the question in my mind, I mean, I probably, yeah, I probably made a decision about a year before, saying I don't want to do this anymore. And I was spending a year trying to figure out how I'm going to make this happen, right. So to me, the biggest thing that I wanted to do is to make sure that it was you know, what we call kid centric or whatever, like, so the decisions were made, not between my ex wife and I, but whatever decision we made had to be for the kids. So leaving was obviously a big deal. I had already thought I was going to be the one that left. And because I wanted her to stay in the house. That was a decision I had made. So then it was just how do you leave, and I thought I would say to my, my, hey, I'm leaving. And I would have a month to let the kids get used to the idea of being anymore. And I'd have an apartment that was nearby and had three bedrooms. So they had places to stay. Yeah. So my wife was my ex wife was not happy with that plan. And so we went to a psychologist that we both knew, and basically let him be the referee or the be the judge, right? And so he came to the conclusion that my wife could not handle me being in the house for a month knowing that I was going to be leaving. And so it was better for me to just leave. And I had made the commitment to say whatever he says, that's what we're gonna do. And so he's like, yes, you gotta leave. So like, basically, one day I said, Hey, I'm gonna be leaving, and then I was gone. And I'm like that. Yeah. So that's a regret. I'll give you that. I didn't regret leaving my ex wife. I did regret leaving the kids in that manner. I thought there were better ways to do it. Yeah, so I didn't like that. But yeah.

Lindsay Miller  32:46  
Ya know what I appreciate? I appreciate you sharing that. I feel like when we have regrets with our kids, it like those cut us pretty deep. And I talked to us about how, like the skill and the stress of that,

Dr. Gary Sprouse  32:59  
right. So there's a lot of overlap between regret and guilt. Because they're both things that have happened in the past that you can't really change. But here's the big difference. They're not the same. They're big difference. So guilt is you did something wrong, you broke a rule, whatever the rule was, regret is, you didn't like you didn't make the best choice. It's revolves around choice. So regret revolves around choice. So I made the choice to leave, I'd made the choice to let this psychologist be the arbiter of what we were going to do. And with the information that I had at the time, that made the most sense, right, yeah. Looking back now see what the consequences were? Yeah, I would, I would have done things differently. And, but so regret, regret says, Hey, you made a choice, and you didn't like the choice. So then you have to do two things. One is, with the information that I had, was that the right choice? And in my case, the answer was, yes, yeah. But when you got more information later on down the road, then maybe it wasn't the right choice. But I can't go back and change it, right. It's already done. The second part is, then you go, what's the process that you went through, to make the choice? And so sometimes the process that you went through wasn't as good as it could be? And so then you have to go, Hey, how could I have done that process? So in that case, I would have said, Yeah, we're gonna go to two different psychologists. And then we'll figure three, and we'll figure out which one makes sense. Or I'm not even gonna involve a psychologist because I don't trust their answer, whatever. So like, I don't think Well, I know, I'm never gonna have that decision again. But it's like, you know, there's 20 other decisions that I get to make. And so sometimes you just have to go through the process and see, is there another way to get better information? I in the book, I talked about buying a computer system, and the the office managers just choose a new office manager and she's like, your computer system is old and we need to spend 20 grand to get a new one. And I'm like, but nobody else knows how to use the system, but you? And she's like, Yeah, no, but I'm gonna be here, I've turned down jobs and pay me $5 an hour more. So because I like being here, it's near my house for a while. I'm like, Alright, fine. So I paid the 20 Grand. And before the computer even came, she came back to me and said, Hey, I got a job that pay me $10 an hour more. So I have to leave. And I'm like, Ah, right. So, right. So then you go will you know, now that information? That wasn't a very good decision. But at the time when I made the decision, yeah, it makes all the sense. All right. So then you have to go back through the process. The next time this comes up, I'm gonna make her sign in blood that she's staying right with it. Right. So, yeah, yes. So those two things will then because again, regrets trying to help you make better decisions as you move into the future. Yeah, so figuring out that you made the decision with the information that you had. And looking at the process that you went through to make the decision, then, you know, tweaking those to make them work better, is really what regrets trying to do. Yeah,

Lindsay Miller  36:00  
I love those examples. It's so powerful, especially again, talking about kids, because if we're having conversations with our kids, it's not abnormal for kids to come with regrets, right, like come to us with things they feel bad about either guilt or regret. And then for us to be able to walk through the process of like, okay, what would what were the parameters you use to make this decision? What was the process you went through? What did you consult, you know, how, how well informed was this decision, and then refine helping them refine their ability to make decisions over the course of their time in our home, it's such a massive gift, if we can have the openness to have that conversation, right, and engage with the process of like, instead of saying, Oh, don't worry about that, like that, you shouldn't worry about that. It's not something you need to regret, saying, like, okay, I can appreciate that this didn't go down the way, you know, in hindsight, this didn't go down the way that you thought it would, which which aspects of your decision making do you think could have shifted to make a different outcome? Is that something that's applicable for the next time and again, we take them out of that super emotive part of their brain where they're just kind of like wracked in, you know, social stress into the logical part of their brain that can process information and help them move through the emotion and take it to a place of learning so that next time, they can make a more informed choice or next time refine their decision making to include different insights or people or you know, processes, so that they're, at each juncture, like getting a little bit more skilled at making choices. And as

Dr. Gary Sprouse  37:30  
well, but I mean, having been a parent, like, you say to them, Hey, I'm going to impart my knowledge on you. Like, I've been there before I've done that. And they're like, no, like, yeah, it's a two way street. Right? I can tell them as much as I want. But they have to be willing to accept it, and listen to it and incorporate it, right? So

Lindsay Miller  37:51  
no, it's true. Well, and that's where I also I mean, I Value Village, right, so having people who are in my village who can, you know, serve that role, who they do trust and do want to listen to. So that's where I'm seeing that conversation be really valuable. Like, if that wasn't, if that wasn't the information that you needed, who else might be able to, you know, have impart information or who might be a resource to you in that moment, because I want to also recognize, I won't always be, you know, the one driving the car, while there's like, hashing out what happened at school, you know, they're going to be off on their own as adults and making choices where I'm not right there to support. And so I want them to recognize, like, who are the people who are balanced, who are the people who I can trust, you know, as advisors or mentors. And so I think that conversation, while it may not result, in our opinion, being being the one that sought after, as, as a guide, I think it can be informative in helping kids explore what it means to like, pull, you know, like pull the room and who were the smartest brains in here, that would be helpful to have their insight right now.

Dr. Gary Sprouse  39:01  
Absolutely. What you're saying is absolutely right. And because it's like, I mean, I used that technique a couple times where like, they're not listening to me, there's too much contempt, because I'm the one that says you can't do things and you know, there's a lot of negative interactions. So I need somebody who doesn't have the same responsibilities, you can just be a source of information.

Lindsay Miller  39:20  
Yeah, yeah. And that, I mean, and maybe, you know, at certain stages, they're not as amenable to conversations with us about about how the decision making process went. But I feel like the more open we can be, and letting them own the decision, the more likely they'll be to continue those conversations, at least in the same room that we're in.

Dr. Gary Sprouse  39:41  
I will say that my daughter who's now my daughter, who's now 33 will call me up and she's like, I made this decision do you think is a good one? Right? So we're having these conversations now we're like, you know, now she's like listening to what I have to say. She doesn't always you know, it's not like I'm telling her exactly what to do, but I become the wallet He can vent off and throw out the ideas and see if that makes sense or not. So, yeah. I don't know if that happened when she was 16. But that was that. Yeah,

Lindsay Miller  40:07  
well, and I think we're constantly just like rolling out the red carpet and like inviting that conversation, right, that we're creating space for it. And we don't always get to choose when it happens. But when it does, it's rewarding, and we welcome it. And I think over time, like, I think a lot of people experience what you did, where eventually the invitation is received and accepted. Okay,

Dr. Gary Sprouse  40:28  
like, I will say, that is a document. No, no, you go ahead. I was gonna say, as a doctor, what I had to learn, and parents need to hear this is like, I can give my advice, but they don't necessarily have to follow it. And so like when I say to patients, like, look, you're paying me, here's what I'm going to tell you, you just you get to decide whether you want to take the pill him out or get the test on or get their procedure, because it's your life, you have to make the decision. So when I take away my like, I don't have any ego in the in the advice, I don't go, if you don't follow my advice, don't come back here again, right? Like, yeah, like I go, here's the advice, take it for delivery, whatever you get, and then they get to decide where they want to take it or not, I think that really makes a lot of difference for patients. And I think it would make a lot of difference for kids to

Lindsay Miller  41:14  
100%. Yes, I love how you said that. Take the ego out of it. Because I think that sometimes we can get wrapped up like our ego can get wrapped up in our kiddos, right, which is it's a normal thing. But if we can, in our minds make that separation and give ourselves the opportunity to approach them as autonomous individuals who are going to make an independent choice and respect that that's how it's gonna go down from the outset, then we can engage with more neutrality, right? Those conversations don't have a bearing on our future sense of self as much if we can let the let the child own it. And I also think it's circling back to what you said about your daughter, when we're giving solid advice, and we're creating safe spaces for our kids, I think that there's going to be that return, right? It's when we're trying to force it. And when we're trying to I don't know, the relationship is something that will circle back to us if we create it, right.

Dr. Gary Sprouse  42:11  
When you're telling them what to do versus letting them decide, yeah, that makes a difference. No, it's how I will I mean, it's hard, right? Because they might not make the best decision. Yeah. And you gotta and you might have to, you might actually pay some of the consequence, right. Like, they lose their license and all sudden, you got to drive them around, right? That kind of stuff. So,

Lindsay Miller  42:30  
yeah. Okay, well, we're, we are definitely gonna have to have another episode because we have not even touched on these last ones, which are also fantastic. As we're closing, one of the things I loved about this book is you talking about the happy place. And now as we are navigating our way through stress, it can be helpful to have kind of a end in sight. You don't define happy place is this like, nebulous, amorphous idea that doesn't have structure, you give some pretty specific structure for happy place. Can you leave us with that today?

Dr. Gary Sprouse  43:00  
Yeah. Well, so that was important, right? Because it's part of my learning process to be an author. You know, my mentor was like, Well, it's great that you tell him how the boat was built. But you need to tell them where they're going. And so when people would say, I'm ready to book on less stress, I'm like, I need that book. And I go, Well, if you had less stress, where would that put you there? Like? I don't know. Like, they literally didn't know, right? They did. All they knew is they wanted to make the pain stop. They didn't know where that last thing would have been. Right? So in this highway to happiness, and as a roadmap, right? It says you need to go here. And here's his happy place. And what I found was everybody's happy place is gonna be different. I mean, clearly, right? Some people like the beach, some people hate the beach. So they're happy places are gonna be looked different. But they have these basic ingredients that are involved. And it has to do with their level of contentment. Like how happy like, how do you feel right now, right? Like, you're making the money, you're not making money, like things are going well, things are going bad. So this is kind of like level that is sort of your baseline. But then there are things in your life that make you really happy, like your baby's born or your baby graduates or you get a promotion or you get and like there's this blip in those content inline, we're good, right? It goes up, and you're like, Wow, that feels great. But it over time it goes back down, right? So it's like, like, you get $1,000 bonus, you blip up. But then three weeks later, you forgot that you got the $1,000 bonus, and you're back to where you are right? But we all need those happy times because that's what we look for that but the third part was and I think you mentioned this earlier was the anticipation part. What I realized was anticipation of something good happening is actually better than something happening. So like when you think you're gonna go on vacation, use a restaurant, you're gonna go to this your favorite restaurant, like you know, two weeks ahead of time you're gone to your favorite restaurant for your birthday. And you're like, Yes, I can't wait. The food is so good. So you got two weeks have gone you Yeah, that's like Oh, right. So then when you actually get there, like what takes you an hour to eat dinner? And you're done, right. So the anticipation was way more important than actual doing it right. But then the fourth thing was this sense of gratitude. And you've mentioned this earlier, right? Which is appreciating what you have. And it's like, yeah, you know, I look at my life, my life is freaking awesome, right? I mean, I have a nice house, and I got a beautiful wife now. And my kids like me, and it's like, yeah, work is gone. Well, sometimes you just have to sit back and go, Yeah, this is good, right? Um, this is what I say in my chapter on self esteem. Like, I wake up in the morning, and I wake up, so that's 10 points, right? I have food, I have water, I have roof over my head, and my family see, so I get 50 points just for waking up. Yay. Right. Right. So you just have to have gratitude. And then the last one is sort of giving back. And there's a story that I tell him in there were in my office where we were doing every year it was we'd find a family that was neat. And we either forgive their bill, or like in this case, we actually took them out. And so it was a husband and wife and their two kids. And I was going to be my staff and I and we were going to take them out to dinner and go on a shopping spree. So I had arranged for this to get a limo, right, because I wanted this to be special. So limo shows up, and my staff pile in and we go over and pick this family up. And it's so funny, because the people were like, they didn't have very much money. So the limo was like, amazing today, but my staff, they're like, who's in the limo? Oh, we're in the level, right? So they got as much out of this as the family did. So we go to a Kmart for for a shopping spree. And I said, you know, a game like $500, or 1000, or whatever it was. And I'm thinking the kids are gonna go buy toys, and the parents are gonna buy a gun or whatever, perfume and no, like, the kids are gone. Hey, I'm gonna get a blanket. And I'm like, a blanket. What? And you're like, well, when grandma comes over, she has to get the blanket. So I have to use newspapers. And you'd like, and the husband got a suit, because he wants to go to church, and you want it to look good when he went to church? And you'd like, yeah. And I'm like, I'm gonna get it right. It was. And then we took him to dinner. And then we took them and they they obviously love the Eden. But I'm telling you now, like right now, this is like 30 years later, and I'm still getting choked up when I tell the story. Because it is so nice to give to people who appreciate that gift. And it's like, yeah, yeah, that so that becomes part of your happy play. So you can give to others. And appreciate what you have, and anticipate things coming well, and be contented. Have things in your life that are that that make you happy? Yeah, that's a good place to be.

Lindsay Miller  47:48  
Yeah, that's so beautiful. Thank you, thank you, for all the wisdom that you've shared, and just your energy has been great, too. Like, I think that sometimes when we talk about stress, it can feel so heavy and boring and a little bit hard and in like, in tractable, like we can, we can't move. And you have illustrated so beautifully today that there are so many things we can do and have empowered us with tools and insights and reframing techniques to help us see the way out of stress the roadmap out, like you said, Thank you, right. Yeah, I know. Right? Yeah.

Dr. Gary Sprouse  48:21  
Have you seen the cover? Right? We have. We have a couple that are riding in a convertible. And the guys driving and the woman has her arms up? Like, yeah,

Lindsay Miller  48:32  
that's so great. Talk to people about Okay, talk to us. When is the book coming now? And how can people connect with you?

Dr. Gary Sprouse  48:38  
So probably over the next month or two? So it's been at the publisher, and we just found out through some weird, they had asked me a question that I didn't realize they that in the next month or so it should come out, right. And it should be available on Amazon, it should be available on the other distribution networks, like Barnes and Noble, those kinds of things you can get on my website is the less stressed doc. And that that'll give you sort of a portal to other things. But we're also on Instagram and, and LinkedIn, and Facebook and Twitter. All those things. Yeah.

Lindsay Miller  49:13  
Thank you again, this has been a great conversation. Yeah, I

Dr. Gary Sprouse  49:16  
really enjoyed it. Yeah, we'll have to do this again.

Lindsay Miller  49:18  
Okay, what was your takeaway? One thing that might be helpful in your journey to manage stress levels and remembering that, like some stress is good, right? There's like an optimal level of stress for some activities and tasks. So it's not that we're trying to eliminate all stress, it's just that we're trying to keep it in a manageable range. So if your stress levels are kind of through the roof right now, what's one thing you can take from this episode to help bring them back down into a manageable place? 

You've just finished an episode of The Stress Nanny podcast, so hopefully you feel a little more empowered when it comes to dealing with stress. Feel free to take a deep breath and let it out slowly as you go back to your day. I'm so glad you're here. If you're a longtime listener, thank you so much for your support. It really means the world to me. If you're new, I'd love to have you follow the podcast and join me each week. And no matter how long you've been listening, please share this episode with someone who was stressed out. If you enjoyed the show, would you please do me a favor and go to ratethispodcast.com/thestressnanny and leave a review. The link is in the show notes. I'm so grateful for all my listeners. Thank you again for being here. Until next time!

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